Priest Known To Refuse
Holy Communion To Immodestly
Dressed Women
"When I showed the article to the Pastor, he told me to be more charitable. So, you are getting the friendly version." Father John Lyons, OMVParents are often obliged to correct their children over
and over again - about the same thing. They would
really prefer not to have to do it, but if they didn’t they
would be guilty of sinning by omission. Priests feel the
same way. One of the things that we often have to
correct people about is the use of immodest clothing.
Dressing Immodestly Is A Sin
At this time we most especially need to remind girls
and women to not wear immodest low-cut dresses or blouses.
Women and girls should be careful that their dress is
not revealing at all, even when they bend over or kneel
down. Maybe some women do not know that revealing
clothing is a source of temptation for most men. If you
doubt this, ask a man. If a woman knows that such is
the case, and still she would wear such clothing, then she
would be committing the sin of scandal.
Immodesty Is Wrong At All Ages
Unfortunately, even some older women of otherwise
upright character, even daily communicants, sometimes
wear such revealing clothing. Maybe they think that
they’re beyond the age of posing a temptation (and
maybe they are). However, they are giving bad
example to others - most notably their own daughters
and grandchildren. They, too, are committing scandal.
Those who see them will think: “She’s a good Catholic,
and she wears revealing clothing. It must be okay.”
Immodesty Does Not Fit God's Standards
Someone might argue that the wearing of revealing
clothing now meets with society's standards. It may
indeed meet with society's standards; however, we can
safely say that it does not meet with God’s. As
Christians, we are not to be followers of society's
standards, but the standards of Christ. We urge every
woman to examine her wardrobe (and that of her minor
children if she has any), and get rid of all clothing that
is immodest unless it can be adapted to be worn
modestly.
What Would Mary Do?
If a woman has doubts about the modest use of a
particular article of clothing, it may be helpful to ask
herself if our Blessed Mother would wear such clothing
if she lived in this day and age. Or, to ask herself if our
Blessed Mother would be pleased with her wearing the
article of clothing in question.
Let It Be Known
We suggest that you cut out this bulletin article, make
copies of it, and give it to women and girls who need to
hear this message. Even give or send the article
anonymously, if necessary. Those who desire to do
what is right will take the correction to heart and put it
into practice.
"Immodestly Dressing"
By Father John LyonsHeadlines by John Michael
St. Peter Chanel Church Bulletin, California
Related Post on Immodest Dress
What are the four things Fr. Lyons did right when addressing the immodesty issue.
Posts
94 comments:
Thank you for posting this message and thanks to the others who link to it. When I go to Mass I do not need to be distracted by cleavage (sometimes ample) or underwear showing from low-cut pants among other things.
Thank you for your post! I was uplifted knowing someone else has common sense.
Our new Pastor recently took down our modesty sign, which our retired Pastor had in the vestibule of the church for 3 decades. His excuse being we have to be more inviting and charitable, God accepts all people, no matter how they are dressed.
For those interested, please see our posts at:
saveollmp@blogspot.com
Would that more priests would address this problem from their pulpits or in their church bulletins.
How some people dress coming to Mass is a scandal of major proportions. Fatheris sin is that he chooses to avoid "offending" anyone by tackling this topic.
My other bone of contention is the incresing number of people who come to Mass chewing gum, chewing right through receiving communion!
I agree. And I also see women in pants at mass:jeans, slacks, shorts, capri's. Tacky! We women do not need expensive outfits, matching shoes/bags/hats, etc. Just a simple dress or skirt.
Men, too. I see men in shorts and flip flops. These are not poor people but are driving latest model cars.
This is about respect: for God, onself, and those around us.
What was beautiful about this post was all the priest agreed to the message.
God bless the Oblates of the Virgin Mary, an order worth supporting.
I agree 100 percent. It would helpful to cite Bible verses about modesty of dress as well.
Since most priests have been corrupted by perverse seminars and by watching TV instead of praying, they will inevitably tell you to stop being judgmental if you complain about dress in church. I guess it is better for men to commit the mortal sin of lust during mass for the sake of being charitable.
It was a delight to find your blog today. I have added it to my favorites so I can remember to visit it often. Lots fo great reading here.
I agree, I was raised to be modest.
However,this smacks of old cathechism where we were drilled into blaming women. At the same time we were expected to be pure, virtuous and silently hold pain in our hearts like Mary. Time to hold men accountable and expect virtue in men. Men don't need women in revealing clothes to sin, they even lust after other men in regular clothes and with family in tow.
I think you are right, of course. But speaking as a woman who did not see this problem until a few years ago in regards to myself and my adolescent girls, I must tell you that women and girls simply do not see it most of the time. We wear what we are told looks good, what is comfortable, what is available on the racks and what our friends are wearing. From experience I know it helps to have "rules"...the neckline no lower than x; the hemline no higher than y; the straps no thinner than w (if straps are allowed at all, or if sleeves of three-quarter length only, or if cap sleeves are allowed, or short sleeves.....I tell you. People have many different criteria for what is modest. It seems silly, but the knowledge of such things is just not widely taught anymore. And when you start to figure things out (for me, it was my husband's insistence and most women will not listen to their husband on these matters in this feminist society) it was still a process and took some time to develop sensibilities, learning from loving, caring and not harsh, judgemental women, who wanted to help and knew that it could be a struggle.
Please don't think women are doing this intentionally, at least most of the time. Forgive us for our bad judgement and when all else seems to fail, do like Archbishop Fulton Sheen did, and praise God for the beauty and dignity of women. We have been conditioned (and created too) to be pleasing to the eye, and we can be still beautiful when modest, actually we are the most beautiful then, of course. But the line gets fuzzy between modest and immodest sometimes, especially when we are in the learning stage.
Please let us help this message to let everyone read or maybe print out and give this to all the priest in the United States. Because I was surprised that they ignore it. Even those people helping in the altar like lectors, psalmists, eucharistic ministers.
I think modesty is important. But I'm sick of the age old excuse for men to be pigs. I don't buy that.
Most people seem to have a very flimsy idea about the damage immodesty can cause. It has enough power to break the backbone of a nation.
Saint Patrick's in New York City is full of temple prostitutes. We complained to the guards/custodians about the bikini top clad tourists scurrying about the cathedral and we were told they could do nothing as the order from on high was that the church should be treated as a museaum. The point is that we essentially have mostly priests of baal and judases running our church infrastructure. However, the leadership is just a reflection of the mostly cafeteria catholic unfaithful.
Every parish should have a sign like this. And every priest should preach it on the pulpit. And every parish should have books by the saints instead of heretics...
But that's now how things are right now, are they? It's like England, before King Henry VIIIth -- If another King Henry VIIIth came, most would go along with him, or Barack, as the case may be, rather than adhere to the Church.
So let's stand up for purity and teach others that the traditional way, the way of the saints is THE WAY of Christ. There is happily no other!
The following are St. Padre Pio's signs in his Church:
"By Padre Pio's explicit wish, women must enter the confessional wearing skirts at least 8 INCHES BELOW THE KNEE. It is forbidden to borrow longer dresses in church and to wear them to confession."
And another one that says:
"The Church is the House of God. It is forbidden for men to enter with bare arms or in shorts. It is forbidden for women to enter in trousers, without a veil on their head, in short clothing, low necklines, sleeveless or immodest dresses."
Blessing to all
The Blessed Mother is a model for men not just women.
I wrote the following letter to the Pastor where this happens over and over ,also to the Bishop of My Diocese(Joliet,Il). Please forgive my anger , Pray for Changes. Have Mercy on Me A Sinner,,,,,Here Goes.... Hello , at yesterday's Sunday morning Mass,my husband and I were humbly offered a Precious opportunity to practice " heroic virtue " when a family of 3 entered the pew in front of us. The ( spineless father ) [ I realize this is harsh please forgive my anger ] who was wearing shorts along with his son who was wearing shorts and last but not least , the teenage girl (un)dressed in short-shorts & flip flops. I'm talking "Daisy Dukes " er...Nearly naked ! The shorts were more like a wide belt that had been sprayed on just like the tanning sprays! Skinned toned and so tight is was as if she wore nothing at all. There was NO WAY , to look the other way . A Person might have well had to be struck blind on the spot not to notice the incident and this Horible disrespect for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass left my husband and I deeply hurt and disapointed to say the least, that this [ father ] was so permissive as to allow her to come to The Holy Mass (un)dressed in that way . The Atmosphere of Spineless , Commonsenseless , and Cowardice regarding allowing beachwear at Mass MUST STOP ! Some Idiots say ," Well at least they're coming to Mass". I say ENOUGH ! The People who come to Mass (un)dressed in this way are hurting the Rest of the family and can't be getting much if they think that coming to The Holy Mass is as significant as going to the beach! Give me a Break ! No one in a court of Secular Law would allow this lack of clothing in a courtroom ,a boardroom , a classroom , or a Wedding Feast ! And The Mass is the most dignified event on the Planet. I'm not asking for tuxedos,,,but for crying out loud,,,Hot Pants,,tank tops,,halter tops ,,micro mini skirts,, sleaveless,, strapless!! I'm so Anguished at the lack of guts in these parents and PRIESTS , who don't have the Backbone to protect their children from the Scourge of Immodesty in Our Society, let alone in Our CHURCHES ! Not to mention all the husbands who are trying to fight spiritual impurity and it's in their faces Literaly at Mass , Mass Should Be A Safe Place . I cried so much during and after Mass and then I offered that very real ,very intense pain in my soul to Jesus to use for his good will, as he will. I am reminded of the Sexual Abuse Crisis in Our Church and the Permissiveness that allowed it to be swept under the rug for so long . We must as a Church take back Authority in discipline and Stop worrying about " offending someone by pointing out the obvious ". So if the Church loses some Money.,,, Who Cares!!? Are not the souls of the Flock more important than the PC mindset of have it your way? It's no wonder why so many Catholics leave to go other places where people act like they believe that Jesus is in their midst. In some Communities this would never even be an issue. It would be { Whap! Get your self back in there and put some clothes on, your not going anywhere looking like that ! } And guess what folks there would be no THERAPY needed for those kids whose parents had the backbone to Parent. Thanks for letting me vent,,,a Catholic whose at the Edge..Sincerly Me
Greetings on the Anniversary of the Dedication of the Church of St. Mary of the Snows (III Class):
I wanted to welcome you to St. Blog's Parish Directory! Pax tecum. Laudetur Jesus Christus.
And, fantastic article!!
I was so glad to read this Link. Thank you! I joined the Latin Community of Our Lady Of Mount Carmel a year and a Half ago, because I got tired of the imodest way of dressing by both men and women in all the other Catholic Churches I had been attending. There is a dress code where I am at now. Magdalen from Littleton, Co.
July 21 , 2008 , Hello , At yesterday's Sunday Morning mass my husband and I were offered the hunble opportunity to practice " Heroic Virtue " when a family of 3 entered the pew in front of us. First the Father who was wearing shorts and then the boy who was wearing shorts and last but not least the teenage girl who was wearing short-short . I'm talking 'Daisy Dukes",,er nearly naked. The Skinned toned Short-shorts were so tight they looked ad if they were painted on ,just like the tanning sprays. There was NO WAY , to look the other way. A person might have had to be struck blind on the spot not to notice. My husband and I were Very Disapointed and Hurt to see this [Father] be so permissive as to allow her to come to the Holy Mass (un) dressed in the Mannner. This Atmosphere of Spineless, Commonsenseless, and Cowardice regarding allowing beachwear at Mass,,MUST STOP ! Some idiots say ," Well at least teir coming to Mass." I say ENOUGH ! The people who come to Mass this way are Really Hurting the Rest of The Fammily and can't be getting much anyway if they think that coming to Mass is as significant as going to the Beach. Give me a Break! No one in a Court of Secular Law would allow this lack of clothing in a courtroon, or a boardroom, or a classroom, or a WEDDING FEAST . I'm so anguished at the lack of guts in these parents and PRIESTS who don't have the backbone to protect their children from the Scourgr of immodesty in our society,let alone in OUR CHURCHES. Not to mention the Husbands and other men who are trying to combat spiritual impurity, and it's in their faces,Literaly at Mass. Mass should be a safe place! I cried all during and after Mass for what looks like a there is a bunch of wolves in sheeps clothing at to many pulpits. I offered my Intense pain to Jesu To use as He Will. I am reminded of the Sexual Abuse Crisis in Our Church and the permissiveness that allowed it to be swept under the rug for so long. We as a Church must take back authority in matters of discipline and stop worrying about " Offending someine by pointing out the obvious ". So what if the Church loses some Money,,,Who Cares!! ,,,Are not the souls of the flock more important than the PC mindset of Have it your way. It's no wonder that so many Catholic are leaving to go to other places where people act like they Believe thta Jesus isin they're Midst. In Some Communities this would not even be an issue,,,It would be [" Whap! Get your self back in there and put some clothes on,your not going anywhere looking like that."] And guess what folks those kids whose parents had the Backbone to Parent wouldn't need " Therapy ". Thanks for letting me vent,,,sincerly a Catholic whose at the edge,MW
Sorry Folks I tried to post once, it got lost and I posted again on accident,,,Pardon me,Mw
I was disheartened to see three girls in very skimpy shorts take up the gifts at Mass. I feel that this should never had been allowed.
It's not an unfair double standard that women are being admonished about modesty and men aren't. Women are the ones offending! If men wore deep v-necks to show off their hairy chests, we'd get on their case too. :)
I agree most women simply don't realize they're being immodest, because the culture has trained them otherwise. I had to retrain my own senses and get rid of quite a few irredeemable items of clothing.
I'm so blessed to be a parishioner at the church where this was printed in the bulletin. But now I really want to see Fr. John's original version!
One more thing. I was just on overstock.com, looking for dresses. Not one in ten was modest enough for church-- even the few that had sleeves were usually too short or too low-cut. It definitely takes extra work to dress modestly!
Markiemarie - I also attend Mass in the Joliet Diocese. I see the same thing every Sunday. What is equally disturbing is seeing a teenage girl at our church who receives Communion dressed in full-Gothic garb and who regularly wears a hoodie with the image of Marilyn Manson on the back that says "eat me, drink me." If that isn't a direct insult, nothing is. Other teenage girls are in short-shorts, grown men are in flip flops and their feet are right out there and they have potato-chips for toenails. Disgusting. The Pastor doesn't seem to care. Where's the dignity?
There is a church we often attend in the southern suburbs of Minneapolis where the altar boys and girls perform their service in the clothes they came to church in. That would be acceptable (I guess) if they looked presentable. Most often they are rather sloppily dressed, but all too often the altar girls have too sexy of clothes on inclduing one of those belly shirts I recall. Can you imagine, a girl at the altar assisting the priest for the consecration in such dress!!! What, are these priests cowards or what?
THANK GOD FOR TRUE PRIESTS,IMMODEST DRESSING IS VERY WRONG YET I THINK WE NEED TO TEACH OUR BOYS THAT THEY ARE SUPPOSE 2 RESPECT WHAT GOD HAS CREATED,WHICH IS THE HUMAN BODY, NOT LUST OVER IT,I AM SURE FEMALES DO THE SAME,PLEASE WE NEED TO LOVE AND CHERISH THE HUMAN BODY,NOT MAKE IT FILTHY AND DISGUSTING.
I totally agree with Father about modesty, especially in church.
But modest dressing must also be practiced in the Catholic School system. These kids and teenagers wear mini-skirt as uniform. Some of those dresses are so short, it is here already a scandal. What is the logic behind this form of immodesty in the Catholic School system?
Great article! Althought this is no longer a huge problem at my parish school, there has been immodest use of school uniforms (7th & 8th grade girls) where they hike their skirts such that there is not much room left for the imagination, especially if they need to bend over to pick something up. Many complaining parents have put the kobash on the loose dress policies for the school. I mostly think the children are not being taught the seriousness of the mass and what it means to dress in a respectable way for our Lord (for that matter anywhere outside of mass).
To the anonymous writers who say that this is old Catholicism and that men should take the blame for their thoughts: The first part, I respectfully disagree with the notion of "Old Catholicism". God is the same as He always was, is and always will be. Because She is protected by the Holy Spirit, the teachings of the Catholic Church, as taught by the Magisterium, the traditions, as well as the Chair of Peter are also the same as always was and always will be; 'til the end of time. So there is truly no notion of "Old Catholicism".
As far as men taking on some of the blame, I would agree to the point that we all need to take responsibility for our own sins. But that makes the sin of scandal (in this case immodest dress) no less culpable for the purveyor of the sin. Only the Father knows the extreme of cupability of our sins. Thus we should not look with scorn upon the immodest dressers, nor upon those who take sinful action because of what they saw. Instead we should pray for them; and as opportunities should arise, teach them with as much charity as is possible.
In our parish, there is a simple card in each pew. The card is titled "In this holy place" and it describes proper dress, behavior and who may receive.
Understanding that people may not read the card, at each entrance to the nave of the church is a 2-1/2 X 3 foot card which carries the same information.
Realizing that people may not read at all, the pastor will remind people during the summer, which in Central Texas runs from March to November, that women must be covered shoulders to knees. He also reminds the fellows that they should be in nice slacks and shirts. He explains that they must not wear muscle shirts, shorts, etc.
When my wife and I travel and attend Mass in another state, we become very distressed by the clothing some of the women almost wear.
Looking at the extremely tight and revealing clothing, we get some level of sympathy for the seams of the clothing and the stresses to which they are subjected.
In many cases, the young women, and the not-so-young, should simply be nude. At least in that way, they would be arrested for disturbing the peace rather than leaving them in place to disturb the prayers of others.
Pax et Bonum
Thank you Father.
I am constantly appalled as I see some women in Church!
Modesty is so necessary, and so neglected by many women today...no matter what "fashion" dictates....
Where are the Mothers and Grandmothers?
My own mother would be appalled, God rest her soul, as I am appalled..
I am frankly amazed that no one has spoken about this immodest dress in the House of God before this.
Again, I say, "Thank you Father, and God bless."
Thank God for all of our good priests.
One case of immodest dress being accepted today because of the times is women wearing pants and jeans. Padre Pio refused absolution to a woman that owned a dress shop, until she stopped selling pants!
I recommend the book , "Dressing With Dignity," by Catholic author Colleen Hammond. Colleen explains that pants on women draw the eye to areas that wouldn't be seen in a dress or skirt.
Blue jeans are especially immodest as they are made to "show off" ones backside.
I totally agree with the importance of modesty at Mass. I also agree with the post that in our society it is sometimes difficult to determine what is modest and what is not. I am, however, very hurt by the fact that because I wear pants - not skin tight or low rise anything - that I am not being respectful. I HATE dresses and skirts unless I'm at a wedding or a funeral and then sometimes, gasp, I wear pants to those as well! I understand everyone has their own opinions but please, let's not go crazy. Again, it is true that modesty is a hot button issue and I am in agreement that we need to dial back the skimpy clothing totally but let's be kind and not so judgmental!
Peace of Christ to the board.
Modesty is a must. But as a Black Catholic, I must submit that modesty is a function of the part of the world in which one lives. There is no one standard (And the West is no longer dominant, thank God).
We humbly submit, these rubrics would not be applicable in our (FIRST WORLD) parts of the world, e.g.,
Papua New Guinea, Polynesia, Micronesia, Melanesia, where the perverted missionaries (mostly protestants tried to get our women folk to cover their bare breats (which was NOT immodest in the society of those cultures).
Same and similar, parts of Africa, the New Hebrides, the Solomons, the Marshall Islands--
modesty is culturally determinative.
The model being-WESTERN WOMEN COVER UP.
The rest of the world-- worship the Lord God without worrying so-called correct dress (especially in those areas where one may have only one or two outfits of clothing).
Respectfully Submitted,
BlackMaleLaw
I'm finding this post painfully dripping with lack of charity - and most of the comments as well.
Has anyone here who complains about immodesty befriended an improperly dressed woman or girl and taught her how to dress? Where are the priests who remind parishioners* (men and women) to dress appropriately? And does anyone teach men to thank God for feeling attracted to women? To learn to use those feelings as opportunities to move closer to God? To allow the glorious but uncomfortable feelings that a man can have for a woman (including those not dressing immodestly) to lead him to marriage? Who is teaching men to say: God has done well! when they see a beautiful woman? And if we aren’t willing to offer women fraternal correction or teach men to use such occasions to move closer to God, why aren’t we just looking away in charity and asking God to send someone w/ more courage to do the job? When does failure to provide fraternal correction or instruction make us complicit in the sins of our ignorant brothers and sisters? Don’t we have responsibility to clothe the naked? Isn’t lack of charity also an occasion of scandal?
And what is revealing? Is it the near equivalent of a shapeless, plaid burkha? What does it mean: "Women and girls should be careful that their dress is not revealing at all…"? I’ve discovered revealing varies from man to man so that the safest thing a woman can do is wear some sort of a window shade device that can be raised and lowered as needed. (If men would wear signs telling us how much coverage they require that would be most helpful.)
There are many women who need better instruction in dress and many women who have been taught they should be able to dress as they wish and being told otherwise is at least an insult. And with clothing today, every woman makes mistakes. Most of us know the experience of thinking a particular garment is both modest and flattering and only discover after we’ve left the house that it is neither. As some have pointed out, girls are not taught how to dress – at all. Many Catholic women are essentially on their own and have no friends they know well enough or trust enough to help them decide what to wear. And certainly, it is in the rare parish that anyone teaches parishioners how to dress appropriately; parishes provide little community and it is in community that we learn how to become men and women.
Instead, there are those who make the ugly and totally uncharitable lapse into calling women "temple prostitutes" (and I do hope it’s a lapse or perhaps came from a Muslim in the making). (Query: has anyone ever solicited or seen solicited an immodestly dressed woman at St. Pat’s? If not, how conclude some women are temple prostitutes? If so, obviously the solicitor has the courage to provide fraternal correction – preferably before the act?)
It is uncomfortable to see immodestly dressed people in St. Patrick's but there’s also reason to rejoice! They're in St. Patrick's and Jesus is actually there. Many of them are praying, maybe even going to confession and mass! Don’t we have reason to rejoice and hope that this visit to the Cathedral is part of Christ’s action in their lives? Might we not hope they learn modesty tomorrow or the next day? Isn’t charity (and I don’t mean pretending that Daisy Dukes are just cute shorts or that immodesty is modesty) what we are called to do? (And, since St. Pat’s is air conditioned and scantily clad women and girls must be cold, perhaps it would be best to ask the guards to lower the temperature even more to entice them to wear more.)
I love fashion. I’ve worked in the field and know all sorts of secrets that most people don’t – such as the cut of blouses. The average blouse will not fit the average woman – the bra cup size (HORRORS! SHE USED BRA AND CUP ON A CATHOLIC BLOG! AIEEEEE!!!) of the blouse is one size smaller than the average size of a woman. Even going up a size doesn’t matter. It’s more expensive to make a blouse a tiny bit bigger in the chest and much easier to find fit models with smaller (HORROR ALERT! AVERT YOUR EYES!) breasts. So finding a properly fitting blouse is extremely, extremely difficult. Under many circumstances they gape and an unwary man might see something and be horribly scandalized or look away in charity and compassion, maybe even thank God for making breasts. (Or women could wear suits of armour except they’d show our shape – HORRORS! FEMININE TOPOGRAPHY!)
* The Polish Dominican pastor at my parish is wonderfully rare: he once offered to buy a pair of trousers for a male friend who came to mass wearing holey jeans one Sunday and refused to begin mass for first communicants recently because an 11 yr old girl was wearing spaghetti straps. My friend now dresses much more carefully and the girl's mother went home for a shawl to cover her daughter. (The confirmation class and parents had been previously instructed regarding acceptable dress but the mother allowed the cuteness of the dress to override our pastor's instructions. He stuck with his instructions).
John - I saw the parish this is from. Are you in So Cal as well?
The mere fact that something is not considered immodest in a certain culture doesn't mean it isn't. Skimpy dressing is no longer considered immodest by many in the West either, and that doesn't mean it's all right. Modesty is not ONLY "culturally determinative". Cultures can be wrong and sick-- look at abortion in Western culture. I'm not saying whether the African cultures mentioned are right or wrong on modesty. I'm only saying that stating what they *consider* to be wrong or right doesn't address the question of whether it *is* wrong or right.
It's true that certain ways of dressing which are offensive in one culture but not another may therefore be sinful in one culture but not another-- the sin being that of scandal. In that case, I think that in mixed company the person with the looser standard should conform to the tighter standard (within reason) as St. Paul advised when addressing the issue of meat sacrificed to idols.
I have created a blog,click on markiemarie and it'll take you there, it's called,,,,,For Crying Out Loud ! Catholic's wake Up.....You see ,I'm at my wits end with the PC Mindset in the World , yet more so in Our Catholic Churches. Let me say that I Know For A Fact that a couple of the devil's favorite phrases that have been injected into Our Culture and it's these Lies we must confront and correct,,,",Let's Not Be Judgemental",,,,,"It alright to speak the truth as long as you do it in love and don't shove it down no ones throat." My friends these Phrases are the Most Cowardly Copouts that were ever spewed straight from the pit of Hell,,,,That's what I Know For Sure, wnat to read more go check out my blog and please share it with the Soldiers on the Front Lines in The Spiritual Warfare going on in The Catholic Church,Love MW
Hey Rob,
No, I am from Missouri. My friend goes to this Church and I got permission to publish from Fr. Lyons with slight editing.
They do Ignatius Retreats!
John,
I think your post touched on a very important point. The shift in Catholic sensibilities. There is a push back going on, the laity is raising the bar of expectations on fellow church members, this is become a ground swell movement. Parishioners demanding better liturgy, better music, better homilies, better catechitics and we are asking for more from our priests. The Holy Father is asking for more faithfulness from Catholics, ordained and unordained.
You post on modesty and the overwhelming response to it are evidence to the change that is happening.
Joseph,
I agree!
How, exactly, do the following two quotes from the post reconcile?
1. "Someone might argue that the wearing of revealing clothing now meets with society's standards. It may indeed meet with society's standards; however, we can safely say that it does not meet with God’s."
and
2. "If a woman has doubts about the modest use of a particular article of clothing, it may be helpful to ask herself if our Blessed Mother would wear such clothing if she lived in this day and age"
If we're not to accept society's standards for dress, why would we assume Our Lady would? If Our Lady was to follow the "advice" on this blog, she would dress the way society dictated during her earthly lifetime, as going without a head covering would be immodest to the dictates of her time. I'm pretty sure modern undergarments- even the most functional and utilitarian- wouldn't meet with standards of modesty from Biblical times. Makeup, perfume, outer adornments, all these were such that were associated with harlots- are you calling us to shun these?
Deliver me from the Catholic Amish clothing movement.
To Cari,
A good observation of how Mary would dress! She appeared in Fatima when styles were some what modern, such as dresses to knees, etc. She wore her head covered as well as the rest of her body.
Does she think we should all dress like that? I don't think so, but if she lived here now, she might be beautifully draped in skirts and dresses that were probably a couple of inches below the knee, with modest necklines and no sleeveless clothes. People can dress modestly without looking silly like the time-warped Amish!
Thank you John Micheal, I too add to the list of many who are glad for the wonderful message.
Being a girl, growing up in rural Alaska I missed a lot of things. Where is it stated a women has to wear a dress or skirt to Mass?
The constant problem we have with tackling any issue is the extreme sides. Lovingly address dress issues but you will not teach those when many say things like "women wear pants to church". Unfortunately God blessed me with an amble chest and it doesn't stay in anything, button up shirts don't stay buttoned. I could have a cosmetic breast reduction to keep it in place at Mass but then some one in the next pew would want to exorcise me for that "vanity sin". I say, priest, loving teach from the heart that which you believe but once you put out the lesson remember many pharisees will run with your words and love will be shadowed. Why not start a youth fashion club for the parish and help them start the standard that will following them through out the community?
Hopefully the people who dress immodestly at Holy Mass will read these messages and change the way they dress. Another thing that bothers me is when people bring their children to Holy Mass with bags of food to keep them quiet, instead of teaching them when their young that you don't eat in church. One Sunday a child was eating a McMuffin during Mass. The parents probably had finished their's before entering! No one says anything, i told the priest and he just shook his head. We have to pray and sacrifice for them.
As long as we keep focusing on the "outside" of the cup, our Churches will continue to close , our priest numbers will continue to decrease and evangelical churches will continue to grow.
The priest has a right to set standards for his parish, but it must be done in a way that is teaching and not accusing. Most women who are "guilty" are just trying to be fashionable, not immoral.More emphasis should be placed on loving Jesus and allowing Him to transform us from within.
This priest is merely espousing Catholic teaching. Love, that is charity, is desiring the good for another person. In this case, helping people to see the dignity of the human person by teaching them that modest dress upholds their dignity is charity, it is love.
As well, those that think that they may dress immodestly (and this goes for men as well) and are not being a scandal is a manifestation of pride.
It is contrary to Truth to dress in an immodest fashion. Due to our fallen nature we are all inclined to the seven capital sins, one of which is lust and thus we are to avoid occasions of sin and avoid causing scandal.
Let us all pray for this priest (and all priests) that he may continue to teach the truth about the human person.
Thank you, Father. I cannot tell you how embarrassed and ashamed I was when I finally figured out that my "stylish" dress was immodest and causing scandal. I was humiliated, and still am these many years later. How I wish I had known before I went out in public dressed as I was. Thank you for saying so, because many of us need to know that what we are doing is wrong.
Whatever happened to common sense? C'mon, ladies, it should be obvious that low necklines and high hems are not in keeping with Christian virtues. Yet, we don't have to wear "plaid burkhas" or "Catholic Amish" dresses to be modest. Non-clingy outfits that cover from shoulder to just below the knees are just fine. However, I understand that sometimes it is difficult to find such outfits and that those of who are more well-endowed have an especially hard time, but it can be done. Recently women and even teenage girls have begun to ask clothing store managers to carry more modest clothing. Let's all try it -- and try to be good examples to our children and those irritating lectors and cantors who stand up in front of the church with half their chest hanging out. As women we need to have common sense, and we also need to (lovingly) teach our children and those who don't seem to get it. And we need to teach ourselves, our children, and our husbands to look down or to close our eyes in prayer or when listening to the readings so we don't see that cleavage. Hopefully our loving example will start something good. (Though those cards in the pews are a great idea, too!)
Bravo to Fr. Lyons! The comment did seem very mild, so I hope his original was even better. So much needs to be said today about this subject. So many people think it is not important. The devil would just love for us to forget about this and think it doesn't matter, but it so much does! Our Lady of Fatima said, that "more souls fall to hell from sins of the flesh than any other sin." Men and women play a part here, but unfortunately the most part falls upon women to uphold this virtue, whether they like it or not. There is much more I could say, but suffice to say we need more brave priests like Fr. Lyons. There is much more information about this subject on our website:
http://www.littleflowersfamilypress.com
and Immodesty' Satan's Virtue, published in 1999, is one of the most complete resources available on modesty.
http://www.littleflowersfamilypress.com/SHOP/MODPUR01.htm
I hope people will benefit by the modesty resources we have gathered and published to try educate Catholics today.
`Rita
There is a church we often attend in the southern suburbs of Minneapolis where the altar boys and girls perform their service in the clothes they came to church in. That would be acceptable (I guess) if they looked presentable. Most often they are rather sloppily dressed, but all too often the altar girls have too sexy of clothes on including one of those belly shirts I recall. Can you imagine, a girl at the altar assisting the priest for the consecration in such dress!!! What, are these priests cowards or what?
Anonymous @ 10:04 pm said the following:
As long as we keep focusing on the "outside" of the cup, our Churches will continue to close , our priest numbers will continue to decrease and evangelical churches will continue to grow…. Most women who are "guilty" are just trying to be fashionable, not immoral.
Question: What makes you think the Church is focusing JUST on the “outside” of the cup? I suggest there is a faith crisis within the Catholic Church, and within most all Christian communities, but matters such as immodest dress are a microcosm of why such faith crises exist. There is a decided lack of attendance at mass most especially amongst the youth and single adults. There is so few now going to confession, and I suspect a huge drop in personal prayer, rosaries, devotions, and taking anything about the hereafter all that seriously. There is an increase in hedonism, narcissism and apathy. There is a decrease in respect for authority in general and in concern for one’s own soul. If you do not agree, then it does not surprise me we have different views on the immodest dress issue as well. America has been blessed like no other nation. We have taken God and His blessings for granted for 40 years or more. We have no right to be so smug or ambivalent in our faith. Virtually no one understands the pains and suffering of purgatory. Most people cannot stand a stomach ache for one hour or loneliness for one week. Imagine the penance of a 50 years of this? Every little sin adds to our debt of purification. Every act of ignoring our charitable duty to others adds even more. In my opinion.
I think modesty is important. But I'm sick of the age old excuse for men to be pigs. I don't buy that.
"Anonymous", I'm guessing you're a woman in additon to being a coward.
Tony,
I am not the person who posted the comment you quoted (just to be clear). But out of curiosity, would you have said the same to any of the other anonymous posters who seemed to hold a slighly differing opinion?
Charity is not a work of God "out there", but rather a work of God with those closest around us--even in cyberspace.
A PLOT AGAINST CATHOLICS:
At least 10 years ago, my husband and I attended a Catholic Pro-Life Conference in which the Bishop read a letter written, (I think by a Free-Mason) in the early 20th Century, in which he wrote the best way to destroy the Catholic church is through immodest fashions for women.
He said it is best to start with babies encouraging them to be scantily dressed, and then they will be comfortable with not wearing much clothing as they get older. He said if women become immoral, the men will follow, and the Church will fall!
Satan is truly enjoying today's fashions.
The Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc. offer a free download of a "Proper Dress in Church" poster at" www.crcoa.com.
This poster was approved by Pope John Paul II when it was personally presented to him by the late Archbisop Tomas Clavel, S.J. and was inspired by Padre Pio and more importantly "Our Lady of Fatima "Unless My message is heeded, certain fashions will be introduced that will Offend My Son very much".
The poster starts out with "We Beg Men and Women to ......
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
www.crcoa.com
Regarding the "Proper Dress in Church" posters, I forgot to ad that at one time the late Cardinal O'Connor requested them through his personal attorney.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman
Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc.
www.crcoa.com
Thanks for the free download of the Modesty Poster, With Your Permission ,I'm going to a Print Shop in My Town of Joliet,Il and having it printed large, very large,and then I will be traveling My Diocese Putting it on Easels in Front of Our Catholic Churches. I also will be looking into Having a full page in the local newspaper. Lets get ready to Huuuuumble,,,,,,Any one want to Join the Movement to Take Back Our Churches, for Modesty and Sanctity for Our Family in the Catholic Churches . All of Sinners and Wanna be Saints,,,I call on you to Be A Thorn in The Side of The Devil's Plan,,,Onward Christian Soldiers,,Lead, Fight or Get out of The Way. Prayers and Blessings to All,love MW
Markiemarie, that's right. As St. Don Bosco said, "If the devil makes a splash, we make one too!" I am going to do take printouts and put on all the churches here.
The problem with "Immodest Dress" is very acute here in India. A few Sundays ago, I was annoyed to see a young girl applying nail bolish during homily!! Also, I was shocked to see a married man wearing a T-shirt in the church that read "F****** machine!"
The devil is rampant everywhere, poisiioning peoples' mind with pestilential ideas. We should stand up against him along with our courageous priests and nuns, chase him away to where he belongs!
Long live our Pope!
While I 100% agree about modesty at Mass (We are in Our Lord's Presence & should act like we are)I do take a bit of a stand on wearing dresses. I do not wear dresses right below the knee because I would have to wear pantyhose(I cannot do it, sorry). IF I do wear a dress it is ankle length so I may wear trouser socks or knee highs. I am a lector at Mass. I WEAR DRESS PANTS. My pants are not tight, not revealing & are very nice & dressy. I wear dress blouses long enough to cover what needs to be covered. If I have a blouse made of a questionably sheer material I ALWAYS wear a camisole or tank top underneath. As far as wearing full sleeves & high collars I'd really be more of a distraction from overheating. I do try my very best to wear blouses that are modest. I believe my blouses are not a distraction, not a temptation & not in question.
It needs to be stated in each and every bulletin what is expected in that parish and it needs to be addressed from the pulpit often. We can't assume that everybody knows. We would hope parents would judge caution their children but like I said we can;t assume. Maybe if it's said often enough it will sink in. I applaud this priest. I've seen some very sad displays of attire at Mass (Including weddings, prom Masses, Baptisms, etc.) We must lovingly correct and lovingly explain but it needs to be done.
Thanks fellow friend in India,,,Lets ask for Blessed Mother Teresa's intervention,,,I Pray More Will Answer The Call and Pass it on,,,,,,,,Blessings and prayers for all,MW
every single priest should be stating the guidelines for decent and modest clothing for both men,women and children--and NOT just for attendence at Mass.
It's beyond annoying to be seated behind a mother-daughter team with hot pants/tank tops,or someone with sheer clothing.
Walking down the street you're surrounded by women of all ages dressed like slobs in plain english.
Watch any old film showing news reels of a sporting event--you'll see men and women fully dressed in spite of the summer heat,dignified.
People have simply became lazy and unfocused as to WHERE they are and WHY they're at Mass.You're in the House of God,not at the beach.
markiemarie, no permission is necessary. By our posting it on our Website permission is implied.
It might interest some of you others to know that St. Padre Pio was sometimes very harsh with women who tried to come into the Church improperly dressed.
At one time he told a supporter that when women who wear low knecklines to the Communion rail finally stand before God, He shows them how many priestly vocations were lost because of their brazenness! That would be very frightening!
I am very pleased that some of you want to print and even enlarge the posters. I used to have them printed larger and offered them free except for P&H to Pastors and Administrators, but my work with the "Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc." takes up most of my time, so we now offer them for the downloading on our Website. God bless all of you who have responded to our offer.
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman, Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc., www.crcoa.com
It might be interesting to note, but almost every time I visit a Traditional Parish, I find a poster,not always mine, asking those who visit to do so in a modest and respectful manner.
I might ad that just putting the posters up and not saying anything from the pulpit, often has little or no effect!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman, Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc., www.crcoa.com
Yikes! You people are nuts!
You DO realize that you're basically asking for Saudi Arabia here don't you?
We're all born naked - if god cared so much about clothes wouldn't he have had us clothed in the womb??
Get over your hangups people!
Dear Yikes,
I confused. When did Father say we are to live like we are in Saudi Arabi?
Who's passion do you want to follow? The Worlds or God's?
live for the rest of your earthly life, no longer by human passions, but by the will of God. (1 Pt 4:2)
Something to think about.
Peace to you.
John Michael
Last Anonymous,
Adam and Eve didn't even know they were naked until they had committed original sin, they they clothed themselves out of shame. We must continue to be modest as they started. This is another result of original sin, along with war, painful childbirth, working in the soil for food, etc.
Yikes,
I hope you realize that you are not really arguing with us, your are arguing with St. Padre Pio and other of the great Saints, and what is more important you are arguing with the Most Blessed Mother, good luck when you try to explain that to Her Son in Eternity!
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman, Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc., www.crcoa.com
The saudi arabia comment was meant to point out that by dictating WHAT people wear you appear to be similar to strict islam in the way they restrict women's clothing choices.
Why get so caught up in WHAT they are wearing? Aren't you all about 'love' and stuff? Shouldn't you be happy that these (under dressed) people are joining you in mass?
"Who's passion do you want to follow? The Worlds or God's?"
Neither. I'll follow MY passion thank you.
"you are arguing with St. Padre Pio and other of the great Saints, and what is more important you are arguing with the Most Blessed Mother"
I'm not "arguing" with anyone - I'm just pointing out how petty this makes you all sound. We're talking about clothes right? Too short skirts and such? Pretty petty...
"good luck when you try to explain that to Her Son in Eternity!"
Oh dear - not this again... as an atheist I abviously don't worry about such silly notions.
BUT - do you REALLY believe that god or mary or JC or whomever is going to care about MY views on proper church attire? With all that is happening in the world I can't - in my wildest imagination - imagine god caring about clothes. Seriously.
I hope I've kept my tone respectful - I don't mean any offense. Cheers.
Just to mention: The word "Luck" comes from the word "Lucifer". As Christians, we should never wish someone "good luck". Just a thought. Thank you.
"The word 'Luck' comes from the word 'Lucifer'. As Christians, we should never wish someone 'good luck'. Just a thought. Thank you."
Holy cow!
This is the type of silly comment that boggles my mind! (almost) unbelievable!
Blogger Note:
A comment was deleted and two unpublished for lack of charity.
Peace be to you.
Dear Anonymous Atheist,
Why should you even care what Catholics write in a Catholic blog?
Why are you, an atheist, even on this blog?
For the information of you and others, St. Padre Pio was once told in Confession that the person making the confession did not believe in Hell. Without a moments hesitation St. Padre Pio replied "that is all right, you may not believe in Hell now, but you will when you get there!"
God bless, yours in Their Hearts,
Kenneth M. Fisher, Founder & Chairman, Concerned Roman Catholics of America, Inc., www.crcoa.com
... revealing clothing is a source of temptation for most men."
Then I would say that they are not men, but dogs and should be kept on a short leash (and possibly muzzled).
It is not the dress that is immodest, but the hearts of those who look upon it.
Jesus did not say, "If a man looks at a woman with lust, she has caused him to commit adultery in his heart." No, Jesus put the responsibility quite squarely on the luster, "...everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
Nor did he say, "If your brother causes you to be angry he shall be liable to judgement". Again, Jesus puts the onus of responsibility directly on the individual, "But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be liable to the hell of fire."
I would be very cautious of the fox prescribing how to best guard the henhouse.
As for me, I got to Church to worship in communion with the assembled, not to catalogue and enumerate their faults, failings and sins (real or perceived).
Richard,
I think that your comment about men being dogs to be kept on a leash was very hateful, but you were published, non the less. Now, I hope my response is given a chance, as I will be charitable in my reply to you.
Most men are very visual PEOPLE, not animals. An animal simply goes to another animal that they are attracted to and tries to mate. Men, on the other hand may be tempted to look upon a woman whom is presenting herself in immodest attire in a way that could be sinful.
Women do hold responsibility! If they didn't, why did our blessed Mother dress so modestly, even in appearing in Fatima? Women wore shorter dresses when she appeared, and yet she didn't don that attire.
Women are responsible for setting the moral tone in society. When women dress in very revealing attire, it promotes promiscuity, and unfaithfulness an even divorce.
Why would a women want men to think of her as simply a "hot body"? Modestly dressing lets men know that you respect yourself and want to be treated with courtesy, as a lady.
During an aparition at Medjugorije, a teenage girl who was wearing a miniskirt was asked by our lady (through Ivanka) to go home and change her dress.
What we see today is increase of mere vulgarity, whatever is vulgar is cool and fashionable - by vulgar I mean all revealing clothes, male or female, it does not matter. Modesty, not to mention purity or chastity are in most mindset - middle ages. It is very alarming, but in the end people will be fed up with all these tendencies and maybe future will be better. We need to pray more Rosaries for those young and older also (sadly) who forgot about dignity and chose vulgarity instead.
Well said, Jay. I pray the tide will turn.
My husband and I have looked at very old game shows and were shocked at the real "gentlemen" and "ladies" on them! Not only were they dressed dignified and modestly, but they were articulate, kind and mannerly. The contrast was so stunning between then and now, that if I were a Martian, I would think they were NOT from the same planet as people today!!
Well said, Jay. I pray the tide will turn.
My husband and I have looked at very old game shows and were shocked at the real "gentlemen" and "ladies" on them! Not only were they dressed dignified and modestly, but they were articulate, kind and mannerly. The contrast was so stunning between then and now, that if I were a Martian, I would think they were NOT from the same planet as people today!!
Thank you so very much for promoting modesty. As Plain Catholics, we have noticed more people dressing modestly and some women beginning to wear mantillas and other headcoverings just because of the example we set at Mass: not to our glory but thanks be to Jesus who uses us.
We appreciate this priest who tries to be faithful to the Church's teaching on modesty.
Whenever there is a "traditional" discussion about modesty I cannot help but be annoyed that the burden of modesty is put on women. There are many men and women in public who throw their sexuality in your face by what they wear or what they lack in clothing.
Thank you, Father for your church bulletin. Although I live in California which is warmer most of the time, I try to dress stylishly but modestly. Sometimes I dress for Mass in skirts and dresses and sometimes in well fitting slacks with a nice blouse--none of them very expensive. A few of the Department Stores near me have some Islamic women as salesclerks. They also dress modestly and stylishly. A few wear head coverings, but not all.
Some of their head scarves are quite beautiful. when I go to the Post-Vatican II Mass, my head is uncovered. But when I go to the Traditional Mass, approved by my bishop, I cover my head. Also, I cover my head most of the time at Adoration because I find it more conducive to prayer, and my hair is not a distraction to others. It is also a good way of showing respect for the Blessed Sacrament. A mantilla or hood works best, a hat is more distracting and sometimes hard to wear in the newer cars. I find dressing this way gives one self respect, and one is treated more respectfully, by both men and women.
I would like to add to my last post of 2:28 a.m. that sometimes during a weekday Mass I and others do dress a little more casually, but modestly. Sometimes I have been out walking, shopping, etc. I might wear corderoy pants or even jeans to a weekday Mass if it cannot be helped. I realize, also, that some people have to wear their workclothes, even to a Sunday Mass, so I try not to judge what people wear, unless it is blantantly immodest.
I'm very glad to see this issue being raised and dealt with. Thank you. Several years ago, I was blessed to attend a small Tridentine parish in Virginia where the priest was simply wonderful. He addressed this and made the point that if we were invited to a special meal at our employers home, unless it had been specified in the invitation to dress casually, we would NEVER show up dressed as so many dress for Mass. We would show more reverence for our boss than many show for our Lord.
For anyone interested, I have recently been introduced to a website and series of books geared towards young girls, but very appropriate for women of any age. Written by three Catholic women, Teresa Tomeo, Molly Miller and Monica Cops. They deal with issues of dignity, modesty, self respect etc... They are called All Things Girl and the books can be found at aquinasandmore.com. I don't know if it is allowed to link to a site, but the following will take you to one set up by the authors of the books that helps girls/women learn how to dress stylishly while maintaining modesty. I bought the books for my 11 year old daughter, but as much as I hate to admit it, I have learned a thing or two myself. http://www.runwaytoreality.org/
Thank you for the post about the books on modest but stylish dressing. I listen to Teresa Tomeo on Immaculate Heart Radio, and I really like her.
The Church is the house of God.
It is forbidden for men to enter with bare arms or in shorts. It is forbidden for women to enter in trousers, without a veil on their head, in short clothing, low necklines, sleeveless or immodest dresses."
A woman who sold pants in her retail store in Vancouver went to confession in Italy to Padre Pio and was refused absolution...
"He commanded her to return home to Canada and dispose of all this stock, and not to give any of the items to people who might wear them, and if she wanted his absolution, she could come back to Italy and receve it, only after she ruthlessly carried out his orders." Anne McGinn Cillis, Arrivederci, Padre Pio, "A Spiritual Daughte
.
Because of this I think women shoul not wear pantsat all.
A woman who sold pants in her retail store in Vancouver went to confession in Italy to Padre Pio and was refused absolution...
"He commanded her to return home to Canada and dispose of all this stock, and not to give any of the items to people who might wear them, and if she wanted his absolution, she could come back to Italy and receve it, only after she ruthlessly carried out his orders." Anne McGinn Cillis, Arrivederci, Padre Pio, "A Spiritual Daughter Remembers.
This is a poster that St Pio had on his church door
The Church is the house of God.
It is forbidden for men to enter with bare arms or in shorts. It is forbidden for women to enter in trousers, without a veil on their head, in short clothing, low necklines, sleeveless or immodest dresses.
Because of this I think women should not wear pant at all
I totally agree that a new return to Marylike modesty (especially for girls and women) is absolutely necessary, and especially in sacred places, because “immodesty is Satan’s virtue”. This is so true!
Regarding women wearing mens clothes however, I think there should be some differentiation, perhaps.
I personally would never wear dresses or skirts which do not reach down to the ankles, but often this is so unpractical when working, or cold in winter, etc. so I have decided to wear knee-long (or somewhat above) dresses or skirts OVER (not too tight fitting) pants (Besides, this style is quite fashionable nowadays!). I feel well in this outfit, because I am wholly covered up and can bend or stoop without being afraid to reveal parts of the body that should be covered; furthermore it conceals in great part the shape of the feminine body, as it should be when modestly dressed. In my opinion this style is absolute not against any Marylike modesty standards, it is very feminine (like women in different cultures, e.g. in India wearing loose fitting long trousers and long tunicas over them, or in islamic countries I have seen pictures of little school girls wearing wide pants and dresses over them as school uniforms, even in hot climate countries).
i. h. Linz, Austria, Europe
Question for all. This is not for me,not for those are love Christ and the whole teachings of the Catholic Church.
What do you thinks the Philippine President should do with the pending proposal for Divorce Bill.
it is so important for the church,Vatican,to bring back the Tridentine mass ,The Original Liturgies,the orientation of the Altar. All of those have function and purpose.
The Priest should be facing the East toward Heaven,towards the Crucifix,Where Christ offered his life for us.The birth of the Catholic church through the blood and water that gushed poured forth from the side of Christ.
That lead to the First Pentecost,the official Public coming out of the Catholic Church.
I believed that unless,we put back the Latin daily Holy Sacrifice to God ,worthy of God and King;
We will always be at the disadvantage in this end times "spiritual Warfare."
Mal 1:11 For from the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, and in every place there is sacrifice, and there is offered to my name a clean oblation: for my name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord of hosts.
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